10/08: Fire Torre? Trade A-Rod? Only in New York
Posted by: Patrick
Yeah, there is a lot of talk about firing Joe Torre and trading Alex Rodriguez. For the record, I'm not on board with either move. There are reports that Torre is "likely" to be fired. And a million articles elsewhere suggest A-Rod is going to be or should be traded.
Cashman has this to say:
As far as Torre, Mark Feinsand says it well:
I don't really have anything to add there.
As far as A-Rod, I'll go with Benjamin Kabak:
I have a bunch to say here. We're looking at one of the greatest players the game has ever seen. And we've got him. And a number of people want him traded. Are you aware of his numbers? In the AL, who was 5th in runs, T8 in home runs, 4th in RBIs and 9th in OBA? Alex Rodriguez. That's some kind of off year. How many Yankee third baseman have had this line in a season or better: .290 AVG, 113 R, 35 HR, 121 RBI, .392 OBA. If someone knows or wants to run those numbers, I'm curious.
But, this is the funny part, for me. He hit .302 with a .431 OBA with runners in scoring position. He hit .313 with a .495 OBA with runners in scoring position and 2 outs. He hit .474 with a .500 OBA with the bases loaded. I'm actually surprised to read these last 3 sets of numbers. From everything that so many people have been saying, I was thinking he'd be worse. Do you realize that all 3 sets of numbers (both average and OBA) are better than David Ortiz's numbers in those 3 situations? Yes, better. Forget money (even though he is a steal for us at $16 million), talk about production. He's doing it.
Yeah, he's 3 for 29 in the last 2 postseason series and yes, that is bad. The postseason is important to me, too. But, to send one of the greatest players ... not just in the game, but ever ... away based upon literally 2 to 2 1/2 post season series is crazy. It's too small a sample size. He has officially had 2 straight bad postseason series in a row, as far as I am concerned. In the Red Sox one, he hit .258 with a .378 OBA. Great? No. But, bad? No. This is the postseason, it gets harder than the regular season, not easier. Great players have bad postseason series'. They are human and it's natural (do I actually have to say this?). But, X Great Player is not gonna hit .280 in every postseason series. Chances are, he hits less. Regardless of how much money is being paid to him.
But, this isn't some average player or a bit above average player playing poorly in New York. This is Alex Rodriguez. If we get ANY other third basemen in the game, we'll have taken a step down at that position. There is no one in the game right now that is better than Alex Rodriguez. I liked Scott Brosius a lot. Good guy. Would I take him over A-Rod? Absolutely not. He got some big hits and I'll always remember him. But, he is not Alex Rodriguez. And he'd tell you that himself, I'm sure. He was a career .245 postseason hitter with a .278 OBA, by the way. But, yes, he was a career .333 World Series hitter with a .333 OBA, 4 HR and 13 RBI in 20 games and yes, that is very good (except for the OBA, but who cares, really, with the other numbers).
Will these things happen? I don't know. But, regardless, I don't want them to.
Cashman has this to say:
When asked about the possibility of the 2007 Yankees not including either Rodriguez or Torre, Cashman dismissed the idea.
"Why wouldn't they be coming back," Cashman said. "That's not something that I'm even thinking about."
"Why wouldn't they be coming back," Cashman said. "That's not something that I'm even thinking about."
As far as Torre, Mark Feinsand says it well:
I don't know how you blame Torre for this loss. He put a lineup of nine All-Stars out there and they couldn't hit. He put a future Hall of Famer on the mound and he got hit for five runs. He watched a player destined to break Hank Aaron's home run record go 1-for-14. Did he motivate the team enough? He shouldn't have to. These guys are well-paid professionals, and if it takes their manager to tell them how big these games are, ship them out of town.
Still, someone has to take the fall. I think it will be Joe. If and when it happens, it will be the darkest day since I started covering this team. With one year left on his contract, he deserves to finish it out and leave on his own terms.
Still, someone has to take the fall. I think it will be Joe. If and when it happens, it will be the darkest day since I started covering this team. With one year left on his contract, he deserves to finish it out and leave on his own terms.
I don't really have anything to add there.
As far as A-Rod, I'll go with Benjamin Kabak:
Nice work, New York. You’ve managed to drive future Hall of Famer Alex Rodriguez out of the city and away from this team despite the fact that he’s hit .299/.396/.549 with 119 HR and 357 RBIs as a member of the New York Yankees. Do you think A-Rods just grow on trees? Do you think we can easily replace that offensive production? You might not think that A-Rod comes through “in the clutch,” but find me other players who have created 381 runs over a three-year stretch.
I have a bunch to say here. We're looking at one of the greatest players the game has ever seen. And we've got him. And a number of people want him traded. Are you aware of his numbers? In the AL, who was 5th in runs, T8 in home runs, 4th in RBIs and 9th in OBA? Alex Rodriguez. That's some kind of off year. How many Yankee third baseman have had this line in a season or better: .290 AVG, 113 R, 35 HR, 121 RBI, .392 OBA. If someone knows or wants to run those numbers, I'm curious.
But, this is the funny part, for me. He hit .302 with a .431 OBA with runners in scoring position. He hit .313 with a .495 OBA with runners in scoring position and 2 outs. He hit .474 with a .500 OBA with the bases loaded. I'm actually surprised to read these last 3 sets of numbers. From everything that so many people have been saying, I was thinking he'd be worse. Do you realize that all 3 sets of numbers (both average and OBA) are better than David Ortiz's numbers in those 3 situations? Yes, better. Forget money (even though he is a steal for us at $16 million), talk about production. He's doing it.
Yeah, he's 3 for 29 in the last 2 postseason series and yes, that is bad. The postseason is important to me, too. But, to send one of the greatest players ... not just in the game, but ever ... away based upon literally 2 to 2 1/2 post season series is crazy. It's too small a sample size. He has officially had 2 straight bad postseason series in a row, as far as I am concerned. In the Red Sox one, he hit .258 with a .378 OBA. Great? No. But, bad? No. This is the postseason, it gets harder than the regular season, not easier. Great players have bad postseason series'. They are human and it's natural (do I actually have to say this?). But, X Great Player is not gonna hit .280 in every postseason series. Chances are, he hits less. Regardless of how much money is being paid to him.
But, this isn't some average player or a bit above average player playing poorly in New York. This is Alex Rodriguez. If we get ANY other third basemen in the game, we'll have taken a step down at that position. There is no one in the game right now that is better than Alex Rodriguez. I liked Scott Brosius a lot. Good guy. Would I take him over A-Rod? Absolutely not. He got some big hits and I'll always remember him. But, he is not Alex Rodriguez. And he'd tell you that himself, I'm sure. He was a career .245 postseason hitter with a .278 OBA, by the way. But, yes, he was a career .333 World Series hitter with a .333 OBA, 4 HR and 13 RBI in 20 games and yes, that is very good (except for the OBA, but who cares, really, with the other numbers).
Will these things happen? I don't know. But, regardless, I don't want them to.
Mark wrote:
A-Rod just doesn't fit. He should also waive his no-trade and move on.
There will be many changes over the winter. The Yankees need young arms.